Post by Ayen on Jan 30, 2012 5:57:12 GMT -6
Hi. I decided to put together a fantasy election that will start in the Republican Primaries and work its way to the general election. It will be interactive, you will be allowed to vote for your favorite candidates that you'll read about in the below debate (there is one additional original character added to the election) it is based off real debates and the real stances, issues and mannerisms of the candidates. I will do my best to properly portray all the real-life candidates despite my personal feelings on them. If you want to reply with a question of your own, pitch it, it will be taken under consideration and possibly brought up in the next debate.
Depending on who you vote for will decide who will lead in the polls, regardless of real life results. This round we have only 6 of the candidates in this debate, you will have the choice of voting for up to 3 that you like. So without further ado here is the first part of the ongoing story. Enjoy.
The Moderator: Welcome everyone to the first Republican Primary Debate for the 2012 Presidential Election. I'll be your Moderator this evening and we would like to quickly thank Fox News and the South Carolina Republican Party for sponsoring this debate and Geenville for hosting it.
Introducing the Candidates at this time, Texas Congressman Ron Paul, former President of Godfather's Pizza Herman Cain, Kansas City Defense Attorney Tori Jacobs, former Governor of Minnesota Tim Pawlenty, former Senator of Pennsylvania Rick Santorum and finally former Governor of New Mexico Gary Johnson.
Now this debate is going to be much different from debates that most of you are probably used to. We are going to go down the row from Congressman Paul to Governor Johnson with every question presented to you tonight. Each question is going to be centered around what you would do as President and you will each have one minute to answer that question. There will be no thirty seconds rebuttals if your name is mentioned and there will be no thirty seconds follow-up questions. Sixty seconds to answer each question you are given and when you hear this sound (BUZZ!) we'll move on to the next Candidate. We ask the audience to please hold applause during the Candidates time to speak as every second is critical and when they're done feel free to exercise your first amendment right to your heart's content.
So without further ado, first order of business: Osama's dead! The Middle East is a mess! As President what would you do as far as America's involvement in the Middle East is concerned? Congressman Paul, you're first, go.
Ron Paul: Well, I've been saying for years that we need to pull out of the Middle East and stop spending billions of dollars a year in Foreign Aid to countries while at the same we're bombing that country, because that doesn't make any sense to me. We didn't even find Bin Laden in Afghanistan, he hasn't been there! Now that he's gone as President I would reassess it, get our troops out of Afghanistan and end this war that hasn't helped us and hasn't helped anybody in the Middle East.
The Moderator: Mr. Cain, same question.
Herman Cain: It's exactly as I said back in January: if the experts, generals and the joint chiefs of staff believe we can win, I'm not going to tear up the plan they give me. I'm going to execute the plan but we need to make sure we're working on the right problem because it's as you said “a mess” and it's not clear what the objective is. There are three critical questions that we need clear answers to, and that I as President would get. Number one, what is the objective, number two, how does it serves America's interest and number three, what is the road map to victory.
The Moderator: Ms. Jacobs.
Tori Jacobs: Look, there has been war going on in the Middle East over land for thousands, and thousands of years. They will continue to fight for many more years to come and as strong as we our as a nation, as a military power, I don't think our intervention is going to account for much overall. Now I was for going over there in Afghanistan to find Bin Laden and tried him for the crimes committed on 9/11 not just against Americans but people all around the world that was visiting the World Trade Center on that tragic day, but I wasn't for Iraq and getting involved in anything deeper.
So what I would do as President in this regard is pull our troops out of the Middle East and end all Foreign Aid there so we can use that money for problems we have going on in our own country instead of giving it to people who don't want our help and can't stand any of us in the first place.
The Moderator: Governor Pawlenty.
Tim Pawlenty: Well first of all, Mr. Moderator, I would like to thank Fox News and the Republican Party of---
The Moderator: No.
Tim Pawlenty: No?
The Moderator: Answer the question, Governor.
Tim Pawlenty: All right. Um... The first order of business of the United States Federal Government is to protect this country and the American people. I believe in order to do that we need to call by name the radical jihadists who believe it's okay to kill innocent people in the name of their religion. I've visited Iraq five times, Afghanistan three times, and many other places in the Middle East including Turkey, Kuwait, Jordan, Israel. These group of individuals do exist, this is a subgroup, it is not all of Islam and it is not all Muslims, but this subgroup believe it's okay to harm innocent people and we need to do something about them.
The Moderator: Senator Santorum?
Rick Santorum: I think the growing situation going on in the Middle East right now is too important for us to pull out. Let take a quick look at what the Obama Administration has done right and wrong in this regard and then what I would do differently. Guantanamo Bay, finishing the job in Iraq, trying to win in Afghanistan, these were things they did right. The problem: they were all a continuation from the previous administration, the Bush Administration.
The issues that has come up under his watch as far as the Middle East is concerned, Egypt, Syria and most importantly, Iran. If I was President eighteen months ago and had that open-window to take care of a regime that is an enemy to the United States and funding terrorist attacks, I would have taken it and as President that is exactly the kind of thing I would do and we would have toppled that regime but Obama didn't do that.
The Moderator: Governor Johnson.
Gary Johnson: As far as Iraq is concerned I was against that from day one. I thought there was no threat to our National Security, I thought if we went in there we would find ourselves in a civil war with no ending in sight, and I thought that our surveillance capability would be able to see Iraq roll out any “Weapons of Mass Destruction” and we could have dealt with them if they did. Afghanistan though, like Jacobs, I was for that.
America was attacked, we attacked back, that's what our military is for but we're now building roads, schools, bridges, highways not just in Afghanistan but in Iraq and we're taking 43 cents out of every dollar to do that and that's crazy to me. As President I am for pulling out of Afghanistan tomorrow, I realize that tomorrow may mean several months, but that's the stance and position I take, Bin Laden is gone I believe we've taken care of Al Qaeda pretty effectively and it's time to bring the troops home (BUZZ!).
The Moderator: More on the subject of Guantanamo Bay which Senator Santorum has previously mentioned, hypothetical: you're President of the United States. Guantanamo Bay is still there. Does it stay or does it go, why and why not? Sixty seconds, Congressman Paul.
Ron Paul: It would go, it would have to go. What do we even need with secret military prisons? We have tried nearly three hundred suspects in civilian courts, and hundreds of them have been convicted and put away. So why are we afraid of openness? Why do we have to move in the direction of giving up the right of habeus corpus, which someday, if we’re not careful, will affect American citizens. Guantanamo Bay would be closed, we don't need it, nor do we need the tortures that goes on in these military prisons.
Herman Cain: It would stay and I'll tell you why. I heard Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said very clearly a few months after 9/11 2001 after the tragedy: the terrorists have one objective, to kill all of us! And so yes, I believe that we should do what ever means possible in order to protect the people of this nation, that's their ultimate goal.
Tori Jacobs: I would like to think that our moral values and legal system would not condone detaining people against their will for an unlimited amount of time without due process, or torture these people suspected of terrorist acts. I've been a lawyer for ten years, I believe firmly in “Innocent until proven guilty.” I am familiar with the cases that Congressman Paul has mentioned and agree with him on this particular issue wholeheartedly. Guantanamo Bay goes against our morals, it goes against our legal system and we cannot, under any circumstance, allow ourselves to stoop to the level of the terrorists. If I was President and it's still around it wouldn't be around for much longer.
Tim Pawlenty: Bullies respect strength, not weakness. Guantanamo Bay under a Pawlenty Administration would remain and continue to do what it's been doing and that's protecting the American people from the radical jihadists that I was talking about earlier. They killed 3,000 of our own citizens on 9/11. They would have killed 300,000, or 3 million, or 30 million if they could have so I support enhanced interrogation techniques under limited circumstances.
Rick Santorum: It would stay. This is not even a question under a Santorum Administration, it would stay. The fact of the matter is it's been proven that enhanced interrogation techniques in places like Guantanamo Bay has been shown to help us find---
Ron Paul: Not true!
The Moderator: Congressman Paul, please allow Senator Santorum his sixty seconds.
Rick Santorum: Thank you! Congressman Paul, with all due respect you're wrong.
Ron Paul: It doesn't achieve anything!
The Moderator: Less addressing each other and more addressing the issue, now there is to be no more interruptions. Santorum, thirty seconds left.
Rick Santorum: Had it not been for these enhanced interrogation techniques, we never would have found Bin Laden and had we not been in Afghanistan we never would have been able to launch the raid into Pakistan so had we pushed the panic button on those two things Osama Bin Laden would still be alive today and I am offended at the notion that this somehow makes us no better than the terrorists that (BUZZ!) is simply not true!
Tori Jacobs: Can I say something very briefly---?
The Moderator: No, Ms. Jacobs you cannot.
Tori Jacobs: It's just in regards to Santorum's---
The Moderator: Ms. Jacobs.
Tori Jacobs: …
The Moderator: Governor Johnson---
Gary Johnson: I'll behave don't worry.
The Moderator: Sixty seconds.
Gary Johnson: It would go. I respect everyone on this panel but it isn't right to deny people due process and I cannot condone, nor as President would I allow, waterboarding or any kind of torture on suspected terrorists.
The Moderator: Obviously the leading concern in America right now is the ever declining state of the Economy. As President what would you do to turn this crisis around and get the US Economy back up and running? Congressman Paul.
Ron Paul: Unfortunately my warnings have gone unheeded when I told people about where big government was leading America and look at the mess we're in now. What President Obama is proposing right now are not solutions it's just more government intervention and what I would do, is veto any unbalanced budget that reached my desk. And stop raising the debt ceiling, that doesn't need to go up any further and get rid of the Federal Reserve System!
These are just a couple of things that I would do as President where the Economy is concerned, I'm not going to get the rest of it in within a minute but I will tell you that another thing we need to do is allow offshore drilling, abolish highway motor fuel taxes and offer tax credits to small businesses and individuals for production of natural gas (BUZZ!) vehicles.
Herman Cain: Our Economy right now is on life support! Listen, we need to get fuel back into the engine, if we don't get fuel into the engine the rest of it isn't going to matter. As President I propose my 9-9-9 plan. Get rid of the current broken tax code and replace it with a 9% flat corporate tax, a 9% flat income tax and a 9% flat national sales tax. Washington right now needs a leader who will show actual leadership and that leader needs to be bold. I am that leader, I am not a politician, I am a businessman, you can look at my record yourself (BUZZ!) you'll see results and 9-9-9 will get fuel back into the engine of our Economy.
Tori Jacobs: I think the first thing we need to look at is control spending and stop raising the debt ceiling. Reckless spending is how you get into debt, not out of it. How much money do we pay politicians? How much money do we spend on Foreign Aid? How much money do we give Illegal Immigrants? Trying to stop a drug that grows out of the ground? Way too much! Change the current tax code and make it to where the amount a person earn and the amount of taxes they pay on it actually adds up. Some say this is the same as raising taxes, I don't think it is. This isn't going to hurt the rich, if anything it's going to lighten the load of people who don't make the same money but pay almost, not exactly, but almost the same amount of taxes.
Cut money in those places and programs we don't need or want, make sure everyone pays their fair share and you'd be surprised by just how much money we'd have left over as a result of that and then invest in our children, invest in our future because these are the people who are going to need the jobs and who we need to keep this country running long after we're all dead and right now (BUZZ!) we have nobody that believes in them.
Tim Pawlenty: We definitely need to control Federal Spending and we definitely need to get the Federal Government off of people's backs. I propose the “Google Test” and what that means is, if you can find a service or good available on Google or the Internet, then the Federal Government probably doesn’t need to be doing it. The post office, the Government Printing Office, Amtrak, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, were all built for a time in our country when the private sector did not adequately provide those products. But that’s no longer the case. What my plan would do is reduce the corporate tax rate to 15%, it's at 35% now, this would bring it down to 15%. An individual earning up to $50,000 or a joint income up to $100,000 would only pay 10%. Anyone above would only be taxed at 25% (BUZZ!).
Rick Santorum: Reduce the size of government! Return it to 18%. Cap all future spending and let's pass a Balanced Budget Amendment that's the first part of the plan. Secondly, Tax Reform, cut the corporate tax in half, cut the tax rate to zero for all manufacturers, permanently extend the Bush tax cuts rates for Capitol Gains and Divided tax rates, repeal the Death Tax, Repatriate taxable income outside of the United States of America at a rate of 5% and reduce the tax codes for all by making the system flatter, fairer and simpler.
Thirdly, Obamacare, that has to be thrown out! Remove CO2 regulations of the EPA, reign in the National Labor Relations Board, streamline the patent process, reform the transparency of the Food and Drug Administration's approval process, repeal the burdensome Sarbanes-Oxley law, repeal Dodd-Frank and end “too big to fall” (BUZZ!).
Gary Johnson: I'd avoid continually raising the debt ceiling by not incurring more debt! I'd submit to Congress a balanced budget in 2013, and veto any appropriation that exceeds that budget. I think we should balance the federal budget tomorrow. I'm optimistic. I think Americans are optimistic. We went to the moon, we can balance the federal budget. We can fix this. We're not addressing the problems that we face, and that starts with Medicaid, Medicare, reforming Social Security and Defense. And I mean cutting those areas.
The Moderator: All right. In 2010 President Obama introduced his plan for Healthcare Reform with the Affordable Care Act AKA Obamacare. Which again, Santorum just mentioned in the last round.
Rick Santorum: A President has to be one step ahead at all times, Mr. Moderator. All times!
The Moderator: It is no secret that the majority of members in the Republican Party are greatly against this bill for a number of reasons, question, if you were President would you go through with the repealing of the bill, if so what then would you do in regards with Healthcare. Congressman Paul.
Ron Paul: Well the problem is the individual mandate, that's the problem! The Federal Government has no business in healthcare, they have no business in most of the things they're currently getting involved with, which is my whole point. The answer to our nation's healthcare crisis isn't force, it's freedom and I'm a big advocate for those freedoms and for the Constitution and this certainly isn't free and it isn't Constitutional. I would work with Congress to repeal it, after that allow purchase of health insurance across state lines, provide tax credits and deductions for all medicare expenses.
Have those with terminal illness, allow them to be exempt from the employee portion of payroll taxes while they're suffering. Give a payroll deduction to any worker who is the primary caregiver for a spouse, parent, or child with a terminal illness. I can guarantee that what is taken from taxpayers' money to pay for Medicare and Medicaid is not raided for other purposes. (BUZZ!)
Herman Cain: When it comes to repealing Obamacare I absolutely will repeal it, if elected! We have the best healthcare in the world. We have a healthcare cost problem. In order to solve the healthcare cost problem, we must use market driven patient centered approaches. Talk to doctors. You cannot micromanage healthcare costs out of DC. Every program we have had out of DC has failed. What we have to do is unravel the system with market driven ideas--open healthcare savings accounts, allow association health plans. Another thing doctors would like is loser-pay laws at the state and federal level. That's what's driving up malpractice insurance. A loser pays law is a big step in health reform.
Tori Jacobs: My main problem with the Affordable Care Act is the fact, it's forcing people to have healthcare! The US government is going to force people to have healthcare and I believe, as Congressman Ron Paul believes, that's not right. It's not Constitutional and it's easy to ignore and dismiss the Constitution and laws when they becomes an inconvenience to you, that's what people are doing now with the Immigration Laws in this country but we're no doubt get to that soon enough. I will repeal the Affordable Care Act if I became President and revise the bill, give an opt out option to people to allow them a choice. I don't mind paying taxes if I know it's going to help people with their healthcare but if they don't want it and are being forced why am I giving this person money for something they don't want?
Fact of the matter is some people may not want or may not be able to afford the insurance that this bill would force them to provide. Small businesses in particular may not be able to afford it but by being forced they could very well go out of business because of this and then you have an administration that just cost people jobs, not create new ones. Let repeal it, revise it and come up with a healthcare plan that gives people the choices that this country (BUZZ!) is meant to provide!
Tim Pawlenty: When you think about Obamacare, let's go back to the Iowa caucuses in 2008. President Obama stood in Iowa and he promised the nation that he would do healthcare reform focus on cost containment, he opposed an individual mandate and he said he was going to do it with Republicans. He broke that promise, he went to Washington DC and jammed down our throats one of the most misguided pieces of legislation in the modern history of the country, it's going to make healthcare cost worse not better.
We took a different direction in my state of Minnesota, I governed there, the direction for healthcare reform is to empower individuals and families to make choices that are best for them and if they need financial help let give it to them, but let give it to them directly. (BUZZ!)
Rick Santorum: Well, Mr. Moderator, as I said in the last round of questions, Obamacare has to be thrown out. It's not just bad for medicine, it's bad for businesses, it's bad for the Economy, it's bad for liberty and Jacobs hit the nail on the head just a couple of minutes ago: it's going to cause places to go bankrupt, it'll cost jobs not create them. Now we have a lot of good ideas up here, I don't agree with all of them but we've heard better ideas on healthcare in literally the past four minutes than during the entire Obama Administration.
Now I hear this all the time: “We should have the same kind of health care the members of Congress have.” Well, that's pretty much what Paul Ryan's plan is. The members of Congress have a premium support model. So does every other federal employee. The federal government has a whole bunch of different options available. If you want a more expensive plan, you pay more of a co-insurance. If you want a less expensive plan, you don't. But fundamental difference between Barack Obama's: it's whether you believe people can be free to make choices or whether you have to make decisions for them. (BUZZ!) And I believe seniors, just like every other American, should be free to make the choices in their healthcare plan that's best for them.
Gary Johnson: Government spends too much because it does too much. Unchecked deficits are the single greatest threat to our national security. Unless we take significant steps soon, our federal debt will equal the entire economic production of the United States. We should start by reassessing the role of the federal government, and always asking the question: Should the government be doing this in the first place? We must act now to enact responsible entitlement reform:
Identify and implement common-sense cost savings to place Medicare on a path toward long-term solvency. Block grant Medicare and Medicaid funds to the states, allowing them to innovate, find efficiencies and provide better service at lower cost. Repeal Obamacare, as well as the failed Medicare prescription drug benefit. Fix Social Security by changing the escalator from being based on wage growth to inflation. It's time for Social Security to reflect today's realities without breaking trust with those soon to retire. (BUZZ!)
The Moderator: Let's move on to Immigration. If elected, what will you do about Illegal Immigration?
Ron Paul: Well you know, when you talk about securing our border I think about how concerned we are with other countries borders over in the Middle East. I think if we were half as concerned with our own borders as we are over there this wouldn't even be an issue. Bring the troops home and you'll have more than enough people to secure and protect our border, you certainly don't need a fence for that!
Herman Cain: For starters, we need to make sure we're working on the right problem. Immigration is actually four problems and as President this is what I'll do to solve it. Number one, secure the border. Number two, enforce the laws that are there! We have laws to take care of this but the problem is we're not enforcing those laws. Number three, promote the path of citizenship that's already there. We have a path to citizenship for immigrants. Clean up the bureaucracy in Washington, DC so people can come through the front door instead of sneaking in the side door. And finally number four, empower the states! Let them do what the Federal Government won't do and that is deal with the illegals that are already here! (BUZZ!)
Tori Jacobs: Enforce the laws. I don't think anyone here is surprised by my saying that. We are a nation of laws and we need to respect and enforce those laws because the alternative is anarchy. I understand the position of the opposition to this. They empathize with the people who want to come here but can't afford the legal means, can't afford a sponsor and I certainly think that the legal immigration laws we have now should be looked at but until then we should respect and enforce the laws we have now. If we let our feelings get in the way it becomes a slippery slope of when we should enforce the laws and when we shouldn't. Where do we draw the line?
Stop giving benefits to people who are here in the country illegally, don't give them amnesty. Because what we're doing is we're rewarding them for coming here illegally and if you're going to do that you may as well abolish the current laws we have altogether because we're telling people that the illegal way is the right way, when it isn't. And it's time we stopped this once and for all and I'll do that as President. It may be cold but some times to be a strong leader, you have to be cold.
Tim Pawlenty: I'm a strong supporter of state rights, but if the federal government won't do its job--in this case, protecting and securing our border--then let the states do it. And they will. When President Bush asked governors to volunteer their National Guard to go to the border to help reinforce our border, through Operation Jump Start, I was one of the few governors who did it. I sent Minnesota National Guard there to reinforce the border, and it works. And that's what we need to do and that's what I will do.
I don't think we're going to give them or should give them a pathway to citizenship in terms of cutting in front of the line. Some people, I think, should be returned or asked to leave. But if you have, for example, somebody who's served in the military, has been in the US for 20 years and has served with distinction and honor in the United States military, are you going to throw that person out? (BUZZ!)
Rick Santorum: I'm the son of an Italian immigrant. I believe in immigration, as an important part of the lifeblood of this country. But what we have is a problem of an unsecured border. I believe we need to build more fences. I believe that we need to secure the border using technology and more personnel. And until we build that border, we should neither have storm troopers come in and throw people out of the country nor should we provide amnesty.
Gary Johnson: There should be a two-year grace period for illegal immigrants to attain work visas so they can continue contributing to America and begin taking part in American society openly. Immigrants should be able to bring their families to the US after demonstrating ability to support them financially. On top of that it should be easier for a potential immigrant to get a work visa. Streamline the legal immigration process to reduce illegal immigration and allow the US to know who enters the country and for what reasons. Enforce a 'one strike, you're out' rule for immigrants who circumvent the streamlined work visa process (BUZZ!) and impose and enforce sanctions on employers for noncompliance with immigration laws.
The Moderator: Now let's move on to Social Issues. Each and every year the subject of marriage is brought up and heavily debated upon. Would you support a federal amendment that defines once and for all whether marriage is between a man and a woman, or allow homosexuals to marry at the national level? What's your decision?
Ron Paul: I don't support a federal amendment at all. Why doesn't marriage just go to the church or private contractor? It's not an issue for the government and I don't think anyone should shove their definition of marriage down anyone else's throat. Let them marry whoever they want and let them call it whatever they want.
Herman Cain: We had a law passed in 1996 by then President of the United States, Bill Clinton called the Defense of Marriage Act and what it does, is define marriage as between one man and one woman, which is what I personally believe and what a lot of other Americans personally believe in as well. And as President I would enforce that law! No exceptions!
Tori Jacobs: You ask me that but as Mr. Cain has pointed out there already is a law that defines it at a federal level and that same law Bill Clinton signed in 96 has been found Unconstitutional by Massachusetts and Californian courts and I agree with those courts on the issue and I think that same-sex marriages should be recognized nation-wide---
Before Tori could go any further the audience began to boo Jacobs, loudly, for her statement on the matter.
The Moderator: Let her finish!
Tori Jacobs: Thank you. Look, this is about liberty and if we're going to continue to be a country about civil liberties then we need to recognize the rights of the LGBT community. Not just on same-sex marriage but transgender people. They are not a threat to us! They are not a threat to the church, the churches will never be forced to do anything that goes against their religious beliefs and practices as long as they aren't physically harming anybody, and that would include same-sex marriages. And most of all it's not a threat to the sanctity of marriage.
Same-sex marriage has been proven to work in states like Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and the District of Columbia. It's been proven to work in countries like Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden and nothing bad has happened in those places as a result of that. It worked there, it will work in the United States of America.
Some from the audience in support of the bold statement applauded but the majority resumed booing Tori once they knew her minute was up.
The Moderator: Congressman Paul, I think you might have just been bested as the most controversial Republican Candidate on this panel.
Laughter soon followed the statement as the Moderator looked to defuse the tension made by Jacobs previous speech.
Ron Paul: I don't know about that, I mean you haven't even heard my stance on drugs and prostitution yet.
The Moderator: Governor Pawlenty.
Tim Pawlenty: As people no doubt know I was originally in favor of a GLBT protection law. If I had to do it over again, I would have changed some things. The statute is not worded the way it should be. I regretted the vote later because it included things like cross-dressing, and a variety of behaviors that weren't based on sexual orientation, just a preference for the way they dressed or behaved. So it was overly broad. If you are a 3rd-grade teacher and you are a man and you show up on Monday as Mr. Johnson and you show up on Tuesday as Mrs. Johnson, that is a little confusing to kids.
My general view on all of this is that marriage is to be defined as being a union of a man and a woman. Marriage should be elevated in our society at a special level. I don't think all domestic relationships are the equivalent of traditional marriage. Early on we decided as a country and as a state that there was value in a man and a woman being married in terms of impact on children and the like, and we want to encourage that (BUZZ!).
Rick Santorum: I am still dumbfounded by what I heard Jacobs said, I wouldn't have expected anyone on the Republican ticket to suggest such a thing regarding this particular issue, I am sorry, Mr. Moderator that is not an attack or a direct address to Jacobs I am just expressing shock and dismay which I believe is my right. When we look at this issue we have to keep in mind the moral fiber of America, we need to remember the founding principles of this country. “One nation under God” and the bible is very clear where God stands on this issue, that marriage is between a man and a woman.
I believe the issue of marriage is a federal issue, that we can't have different laws with respect to marriage. We have to have one law. Marriage is a foundational institution of our country, and we have to have a singular law with respect to that. We can't have somebody married in one state and not married in another.
Gary Johnson: I support gay unions. I think the government ought to get out of the marriage business. And then for me as governor of New Mexico, everything was a cost-benefit analysis. There weren't any sacred cows--everything was a cost-benefit analysis. What are we spending money on and what are we getting for the money that we're spending? So in that sense, the drug war is absolutely a failure.
The Moderator: I would like to thank all of you for attending this debate here tonight and following the rules, for the most part. I extend my thanks to the audience for their cooperation and participation and once again we thank Fox News, the South Carolina Republican Party and the city of Greenville. This concludes the first Republican Candidates Debate for the 2012 Election I hope the answers you got here today have been helpful and next time we hope to have Governor Romney, Speaker Gingrich and Congresswoman Bachmann here with us. Thank you and goodnight.
Depending on who you vote for will decide who will lead in the polls, regardless of real life results. This round we have only 6 of the candidates in this debate, you will have the choice of voting for up to 3 that you like. So without further ado here is the first part of the ongoing story. Enjoy.
The Republican Candidates Debate
Date: May 5, 2011
Location: Peace Center in Greenville, SC
Sponsor: Fox News and South Carolina Republican Party
Participants: Gary Johnson, Ron Paul, Herman Cain, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Santorum, Tori Jacobs
Date: May 5, 2011
Location: Peace Center in Greenville, SC
Sponsor: Fox News and South Carolina Republican Party
Participants: Gary Johnson, Ron Paul, Herman Cain, Tim Pawlenty, Rick Santorum, Tori Jacobs
The Moderator: Welcome everyone to the first Republican Primary Debate for the 2012 Presidential Election. I'll be your Moderator this evening and we would like to quickly thank Fox News and the South Carolina Republican Party for sponsoring this debate and Geenville for hosting it.
Introducing the Candidates at this time, Texas Congressman Ron Paul, former President of Godfather's Pizza Herman Cain, Kansas City Defense Attorney Tori Jacobs, former Governor of Minnesota Tim Pawlenty, former Senator of Pennsylvania Rick Santorum and finally former Governor of New Mexico Gary Johnson.
Now this debate is going to be much different from debates that most of you are probably used to. We are going to go down the row from Congressman Paul to Governor Johnson with every question presented to you tonight. Each question is going to be centered around what you would do as President and you will each have one minute to answer that question. There will be no thirty seconds rebuttals if your name is mentioned and there will be no thirty seconds follow-up questions. Sixty seconds to answer each question you are given and when you hear this sound (BUZZ!) we'll move on to the next Candidate. We ask the audience to please hold applause during the Candidates time to speak as every second is critical and when they're done feel free to exercise your first amendment right to your heart's content.
So without further ado, first order of business: Osama's dead! The Middle East is a mess! As President what would you do as far as America's involvement in the Middle East is concerned? Congressman Paul, you're first, go.
Ron Paul: Well, I've been saying for years that we need to pull out of the Middle East and stop spending billions of dollars a year in Foreign Aid to countries while at the same we're bombing that country, because that doesn't make any sense to me. We didn't even find Bin Laden in Afghanistan, he hasn't been there! Now that he's gone as President I would reassess it, get our troops out of Afghanistan and end this war that hasn't helped us and hasn't helped anybody in the Middle East.
The Moderator: Mr. Cain, same question.
Herman Cain: It's exactly as I said back in January: if the experts, generals and the joint chiefs of staff believe we can win, I'm not going to tear up the plan they give me. I'm going to execute the plan but we need to make sure we're working on the right problem because it's as you said “a mess” and it's not clear what the objective is. There are three critical questions that we need clear answers to, and that I as President would get. Number one, what is the objective, number two, how does it serves America's interest and number three, what is the road map to victory.
The Moderator: Ms. Jacobs.
Tori Jacobs: Look, there has been war going on in the Middle East over land for thousands, and thousands of years. They will continue to fight for many more years to come and as strong as we our as a nation, as a military power, I don't think our intervention is going to account for much overall. Now I was for going over there in Afghanistan to find Bin Laden and tried him for the crimes committed on 9/11 not just against Americans but people all around the world that was visiting the World Trade Center on that tragic day, but I wasn't for Iraq and getting involved in anything deeper.
So what I would do as President in this regard is pull our troops out of the Middle East and end all Foreign Aid there so we can use that money for problems we have going on in our own country instead of giving it to people who don't want our help and can't stand any of us in the first place.
The Moderator: Governor Pawlenty.
Tim Pawlenty: Well first of all, Mr. Moderator, I would like to thank Fox News and the Republican Party of---
The Moderator: No.
Tim Pawlenty: No?
The Moderator: Answer the question, Governor.
Tim Pawlenty: All right. Um... The first order of business of the United States Federal Government is to protect this country and the American people. I believe in order to do that we need to call by name the radical jihadists who believe it's okay to kill innocent people in the name of their religion. I've visited Iraq five times, Afghanistan three times, and many other places in the Middle East including Turkey, Kuwait, Jordan, Israel. These group of individuals do exist, this is a subgroup, it is not all of Islam and it is not all Muslims, but this subgroup believe it's okay to harm innocent people and we need to do something about them.
The Moderator: Senator Santorum?
Rick Santorum: I think the growing situation going on in the Middle East right now is too important for us to pull out. Let take a quick look at what the Obama Administration has done right and wrong in this regard and then what I would do differently. Guantanamo Bay, finishing the job in Iraq, trying to win in Afghanistan, these were things they did right. The problem: they were all a continuation from the previous administration, the Bush Administration.
The issues that has come up under his watch as far as the Middle East is concerned, Egypt, Syria and most importantly, Iran. If I was President eighteen months ago and had that open-window to take care of a regime that is an enemy to the United States and funding terrorist attacks, I would have taken it and as President that is exactly the kind of thing I would do and we would have toppled that regime but Obama didn't do that.
The Moderator: Governor Johnson.
Gary Johnson: As far as Iraq is concerned I was against that from day one. I thought there was no threat to our National Security, I thought if we went in there we would find ourselves in a civil war with no ending in sight, and I thought that our surveillance capability would be able to see Iraq roll out any “Weapons of Mass Destruction” and we could have dealt with them if they did. Afghanistan though, like Jacobs, I was for that.
America was attacked, we attacked back, that's what our military is for but we're now building roads, schools, bridges, highways not just in Afghanistan but in Iraq and we're taking 43 cents out of every dollar to do that and that's crazy to me. As President I am for pulling out of Afghanistan tomorrow, I realize that tomorrow may mean several months, but that's the stance and position I take, Bin Laden is gone I believe we've taken care of Al Qaeda pretty effectively and it's time to bring the troops home (BUZZ!).
The Moderator: More on the subject of Guantanamo Bay which Senator Santorum has previously mentioned, hypothetical: you're President of the United States. Guantanamo Bay is still there. Does it stay or does it go, why and why not? Sixty seconds, Congressman Paul.
Ron Paul: It would go, it would have to go. What do we even need with secret military prisons? We have tried nearly three hundred suspects in civilian courts, and hundreds of them have been convicted and put away. So why are we afraid of openness? Why do we have to move in the direction of giving up the right of habeus corpus, which someday, if we’re not careful, will affect American citizens. Guantanamo Bay would be closed, we don't need it, nor do we need the tortures that goes on in these military prisons.
Herman Cain: It would stay and I'll tell you why. I heard Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said very clearly a few months after 9/11 2001 after the tragedy: the terrorists have one objective, to kill all of us! And so yes, I believe that we should do what ever means possible in order to protect the people of this nation, that's their ultimate goal.
Tori Jacobs: I would like to think that our moral values and legal system would not condone detaining people against their will for an unlimited amount of time without due process, or torture these people suspected of terrorist acts. I've been a lawyer for ten years, I believe firmly in “Innocent until proven guilty.” I am familiar with the cases that Congressman Paul has mentioned and agree with him on this particular issue wholeheartedly. Guantanamo Bay goes against our morals, it goes against our legal system and we cannot, under any circumstance, allow ourselves to stoop to the level of the terrorists. If I was President and it's still around it wouldn't be around for much longer.
Tim Pawlenty: Bullies respect strength, not weakness. Guantanamo Bay under a Pawlenty Administration would remain and continue to do what it's been doing and that's protecting the American people from the radical jihadists that I was talking about earlier. They killed 3,000 of our own citizens on 9/11. They would have killed 300,000, or 3 million, or 30 million if they could have so I support enhanced interrogation techniques under limited circumstances.
Rick Santorum: It would stay. This is not even a question under a Santorum Administration, it would stay. The fact of the matter is it's been proven that enhanced interrogation techniques in places like Guantanamo Bay has been shown to help us find---
Ron Paul: Not true!
The Moderator: Congressman Paul, please allow Senator Santorum his sixty seconds.
Rick Santorum: Thank you! Congressman Paul, with all due respect you're wrong.
Ron Paul: It doesn't achieve anything!
The Moderator: Less addressing each other and more addressing the issue, now there is to be no more interruptions. Santorum, thirty seconds left.
Rick Santorum: Had it not been for these enhanced interrogation techniques, we never would have found Bin Laden and had we not been in Afghanistan we never would have been able to launch the raid into Pakistan so had we pushed the panic button on those two things Osama Bin Laden would still be alive today and I am offended at the notion that this somehow makes us no better than the terrorists that (BUZZ!) is simply not true!
Tori Jacobs: Can I say something very briefly---?
The Moderator: No, Ms. Jacobs you cannot.
Tori Jacobs: It's just in regards to Santorum's---
The Moderator: Ms. Jacobs.
Tori Jacobs: …
The Moderator: Governor Johnson---
Gary Johnson: I'll behave don't worry.
The Moderator: Sixty seconds.
Gary Johnson: It would go. I respect everyone on this panel but it isn't right to deny people due process and I cannot condone, nor as President would I allow, waterboarding or any kind of torture on suspected terrorists.
The Moderator: Obviously the leading concern in America right now is the ever declining state of the Economy. As President what would you do to turn this crisis around and get the US Economy back up and running? Congressman Paul.
Ron Paul: Unfortunately my warnings have gone unheeded when I told people about where big government was leading America and look at the mess we're in now. What President Obama is proposing right now are not solutions it's just more government intervention and what I would do, is veto any unbalanced budget that reached my desk. And stop raising the debt ceiling, that doesn't need to go up any further and get rid of the Federal Reserve System!
These are just a couple of things that I would do as President where the Economy is concerned, I'm not going to get the rest of it in within a minute but I will tell you that another thing we need to do is allow offshore drilling, abolish highway motor fuel taxes and offer tax credits to small businesses and individuals for production of natural gas (BUZZ!) vehicles.
Herman Cain: Our Economy right now is on life support! Listen, we need to get fuel back into the engine, if we don't get fuel into the engine the rest of it isn't going to matter. As President I propose my 9-9-9 plan. Get rid of the current broken tax code and replace it with a 9% flat corporate tax, a 9% flat income tax and a 9% flat national sales tax. Washington right now needs a leader who will show actual leadership and that leader needs to be bold. I am that leader, I am not a politician, I am a businessman, you can look at my record yourself (BUZZ!) you'll see results and 9-9-9 will get fuel back into the engine of our Economy.
Tori Jacobs: I think the first thing we need to look at is control spending and stop raising the debt ceiling. Reckless spending is how you get into debt, not out of it. How much money do we pay politicians? How much money do we spend on Foreign Aid? How much money do we give Illegal Immigrants? Trying to stop a drug that grows out of the ground? Way too much! Change the current tax code and make it to where the amount a person earn and the amount of taxes they pay on it actually adds up. Some say this is the same as raising taxes, I don't think it is. This isn't going to hurt the rich, if anything it's going to lighten the load of people who don't make the same money but pay almost, not exactly, but almost the same amount of taxes.
Cut money in those places and programs we don't need or want, make sure everyone pays their fair share and you'd be surprised by just how much money we'd have left over as a result of that and then invest in our children, invest in our future because these are the people who are going to need the jobs and who we need to keep this country running long after we're all dead and right now (BUZZ!) we have nobody that believes in them.
Tim Pawlenty: We definitely need to control Federal Spending and we definitely need to get the Federal Government off of people's backs. I propose the “Google Test” and what that means is, if you can find a service or good available on Google or the Internet, then the Federal Government probably doesn’t need to be doing it. The post office, the Government Printing Office, Amtrak, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, were all built for a time in our country when the private sector did not adequately provide those products. But that’s no longer the case. What my plan would do is reduce the corporate tax rate to 15%, it's at 35% now, this would bring it down to 15%. An individual earning up to $50,000 or a joint income up to $100,000 would only pay 10%. Anyone above would only be taxed at 25% (BUZZ!).
Rick Santorum: Reduce the size of government! Return it to 18%. Cap all future spending and let's pass a Balanced Budget Amendment that's the first part of the plan. Secondly, Tax Reform, cut the corporate tax in half, cut the tax rate to zero for all manufacturers, permanently extend the Bush tax cuts rates for Capitol Gains and Divided tax rates, repeal the Death Tax, Repatriate taxable income outside of the United States of America at a rate of 5% and reduce the tax codes for all by making the system flatter, fairer and simpler.
Thirdly, Obamacare, that has to be thrown out! Remove CO2 regulations of the EPA, reign in the National Labor Relations Board, streamline the patent process, reform the transparency of the Food and Drug Administration's approval process, repeal the burdensome Sarbanes-Oxley law, repeal Dodd-Frank and end “too big to fall” (BUZZ!).
Gary Johnson: I'd avoid continually raising the debt ceiling by not incurring more debt! I'd submit to Congress a balanced budget in 2013, and veto any appropriation that exceeds that budget. I think we should balance the federal budget tomorrow. I'm optimistic. I think Americans are optimistic. We went to the moon, we can balance the federal budget. We can fix this. We're not addressing the problems that we face, and that starts with Medicaid, Medicare, reforming Social Security and Defense. And I mean cutting those areas.
The Moderator: All right. In 2010 President Obama introduced his plan for Healthcare Reform with the Affordable Care Act AKA Obamacare. Which again, Santorum just mentioned in the last round.
Rick Santorum: A President has to be one step ahead at all times, Mr. Moderator. All times!
The Moderator: It is no secret that the majority of members in the Republican Party are greatly against this bill for a number of reasons, question, if you were President would you go through with the repealing of the bill, if so what then would you do in regards with Healthcare. Congressman Paul.
Ron Paul: Well the problem is the individual mandate, that's the problem! The Federal Government has no business in healthcare, they have no business in most of the things they're currently getting involved with, which is my whole point. The answer to our nation's healthcare crisis isn't force, it's freedom and I'm a big advocate for those freedoms and for the Constitution and this certainly isn't free and it isn't Constitutional. I would work with Congress to repeal it, after that allow purchase of health insurance across state lines, provide tax credits and deductions for all medicare expenses.
Have those with terminal illness, allow them to be exempt from the employee portion of payroll taxes while they're suffering. Give a payroll deduction to any worker who is the primary caregiver for a spouse, parent, or child with a terminal illness. I can guarantee that what is taken from taxpayers' money to pay for Medicare and Medicaid is not raided for other purposes. (BUZZ!)
Herman Cain: When it comes to repealing Obamacare I absolutely will repeal it, if elected! We have the best healthcare in the world. We have a healthcare cost problem. In order to solve the healthcare cost problem, we must use market driven patient centered approaches. Talk to doctors. You cannot micromanage healthcare costs out of DC. Every program we have had out of DC has failed. What we have to do is unravel the system with market driven ideas--open healthcare savings accounts, allow association health plans. Another thing doctors would like is loser-pay laws at the state and federal level. That's what's driving up malpractice insurance. A loser pays law is a big step in health reform.
Tori Jacobs: My main problem with the Affordable Care Act is the fact, it's forcing people to have healthcare! The US government is going to force people to have healthcare and I believe, as Congressman Ron Paul believes, that's not right. It's not Constitutional and it's easy to ignore and dismiss the Constitution and laws when they becomes an inconvenience to you, that's what people are doing now with the Immigration Laws in this country but we're no doubt get to that soon enough. I will repeal the Affordable Care Act if I became President and revise the bill, give an opt out option to people to allow them a choice. I don't mind paying taxes if I know it's going to help people with their healthcare but if they don't want it and are being forced why am I giving this person money for something they don't want?
Fact of the matter is some people may not want or may not be able to afford the insurance that this bill would force them to provide. Small businesses in particular may not be able to afford it but by being forced they could very well go out of business because of this and then you have an administration that just cost people jobs, not create new ones. Let repeal it, revise it and come up with a healthcare plan that gives people the choices that this country (BUZZ!) is meant to provide!
Tim Pawlenty: When you think about Obamacare, let's go back to the Iowa caucuses in 2008. President Obama stood in Iowa and he promised the nation that he would do healthcare reform focus on cost containment, he opposed an individual mandate and he said he was going to do it with Republicans. He broke that promise, he went to Washington DC and jammed down our throats one of the most misguided pieces of legislation in the modern history of the country, it's going to make healthcare cost worse not better.
We took a different direction in my state of Minnesota, I governed there, the direction for healthcare reform is to empower individuals and families to make choices that are best for them and if they need financial help let give it to them, but let give it to them directly. (BUZZ!)
Rick Santorum: Well, Mr. Moderator, as I said in the last round of questions, Obamacare has to be thrown out. It's not just bad for medicine, it's bad for businesses, it's bad for the Economy, it's bad for liberty and Jacobs hit the nail on the head just a couple of minutes ago: it's going to cause places to go bankrupt, it'll cost jobs not create them. Now we have a lot of good ideas up here, I don't agree with all of them but we've heard better ideas on healthcare in literally the past four minutes than during the entire Obama Administration.
Now I hear this all the time: “We should have the same kind of health care the members of Congress have.” Well, that's pretty much what Paul Ryan's plan is. The members of Congress have a premium support model. So does every other federal employee. The federal government has a whole bunch of different options available. If you want a more expensive plan, you pay more of a co-insurance. If you want a less expensive plan, you don't. But fundamental difference between Barack Obama's: it's whether you believe people can be free to make choices or whether you have to make decisions for them. (BUZZ!) And I believe seniors, just like every other American, should be free to make the choices in their healthcare plan that's best for them.
Gary Johnson: Government spends too much because it does too much. Unchecked deficits are the single greatest threat to our national security. Unless we take significant steps soon, our federal debt will equal the entire economic production of the United States. We should start by reassessing the role of the federal government, and always asking the question: Should the government be doing this in the first place? We must act now to enact responsible entitlement reform:
Identify and implement common-sense cost savings to place Medicare on a path toward long-term solvency. Block grant Medicare and Medicaid funds to the states, allowing them to innovate, find efficiencies and provide better service at lower cost. Repeal Obamacare, as well as the failed Medicare prescription drug benefit. Fix Social Security by changing the escalator from being based on wage growth to inflation. It's time for Social Security to reflect today's realities without breaking trust with those soon to retire. (BUZZ!)
The Moderator: Let's move on to Immigration. If elected, what will you do about Illegal Immigration?
Ron Paul: Well you know, when you talk about securing our border I think about how concerned we are with other countries borders over in the Middle East. I think if we were half as concerned with our own borders as we are over there this wouldn't even be an issue. Bring the troops home and you'll have more than enough people to secure and protect our border, you certainly don't need a fence for that!
Herman Cain: For starters, we need to make sure we're working on the right problem. Immigration is actually four problems and as President this is what I'll do to solve it. Number one, secure the border. Number two, enforce the laws that are there! We have laws to take care of this but the problem is we're not enforcing those laws. Number three, promote the path of citizenship that's already there. We have a path to citizenship for immigrants. Clean up the bureaucracy in Washington, DC so people can come through the front door instead of sneaking in the side door. And finally number four, empower the states! Let them do what the Federal Government won't do and that is deal with the illegals that are already here! (BUZZ!)
Tori Jacobs: Enforce the laws. I don't think anyone here is surprised by my saying that. We are a nation of laws and we need to respect and enforce those laws because the alternative is anarchy. I understand the position of the opposition to this. They empathize with the people who want to come here but can't afford the legal means, can't afford a sponsor and I certainly think that the legal immigration laws we have now should be looked at but until then we should respect and enforce the laws we have now. If we let our feelings get in the way it becomes a slippery slope of when we should enforce the laws and when we shouldn't. Where do we draw the line?
Stop giving benefits to people who are here in the country illegally, don't give them amnesty. Because what we're doing is we're rewarding them for coming here illegally and if you're going to do that you may as well abolish the current laws we have altogether because we're telling people that the illegal way is the right way, when it isn't. And it's time we stopped this once and for all and I'll do that as President. It may be cold but some times to be a strong leader, you have to be cold.
Tim Pawlenty: I'm a strong supporter of state rights, but if the federal government won't do its job--in this case, protecting and securing our border--then let the states do it. And they will. When President Bush asked governors to volunteer their National Guard to go to the border to help reinforce our border, through Operation Jump Start, I was one of the few governors who did it. I sent Minnesota National Guard there to reinforce the border, and it works. And that's what we need to do and that's what I will do.
I don't think we're going to give them or should give them a pathway to citizenship in terms of cutting in front of the line. Some people, I think, should be returned or asked to leave. But if you have, for example, somebody who's served in the military, has been in the US for 20 years and has served with distinction and honor in the United States military, are you going to throw that person out? (BUZZ!)
Rick Santorum: I'm the son of an Italian immigrant. I believe in immigration, as an important part of the lifeblood of this country. But what we have is a problem of an unsecured border. I believe we need to build more fences. I believe that we need to secure the border using technology and more personnel. And until we build that border, we should neither have storm troopers come in and throw people out of the country nor should we provide amnesty.
Gary Johnson: There should be a two-year grace period for illegal immigrants to attain work visas so they can continue contributing to America and begin taking part in American society openly. Immigrants should be able to bring their families to the US after demonstrating ability to support them financially. On top of that it should be easier for a potential immigrant to get a work visa. Streamline the legal immigration process to reduce illegal immigration and allow the US to know who enters the country and for what reasons. Enforce a 'one strike, you're out' rule for immigrants who circumvent the streamlined work visa process (BUZZ!) and impose and enforce sanctions on employers for noncompliance with immigration laws.
The Moderator: Now let's move on to Social Issues. Each and every year the subject of marriage is brought up and heavily debated upon. Would you support a federal amendment that defines once and for all whether marriage is between a man and a woman, or allow homosexuals to marry at the national level? What's your decision?
Ron Paul: I don't support a federal amendment at all. Why doesn't marriage just go to the church or private contractor? It's not an issue for the government and I don't think anyone should shove their definition of marriage down anyone else's throat. Let them marry whoever they want and let them call it whatever they want.
Herman Cain: We had a law passed in 1996 by then President of the United States, Bill Clinton called the Defense of Marriage Act and what it does, is define marriage as between one man and one woman, which is what I personally believe and what a lot of other Americans personally believe in as well. And as President I would enforce that law! No exceptions!
Tori Jacobs: You ask me that but as Mr. Cain has pointed out there already is a law that defines it at a federal level and that same law Bill Clinton signed in 96 has been found Unconstitutional by Massachusetts and Californian courts and I agree with those courts on the issue and I think that same-sex marriages should be recognized nation-wide---
Before Tori could go any further the audience began to boo Jacobs, loudly, for her statement on the matter.
The Moderator: Let her finish!
Tori Jacobs: Thank you. Look, this is about liberty and if we're going to continue to be a country about civil liberties then we need to recognize the rights of the LGBT community. Not just on same-sex marriage but transgender people. They are not a threat to us! They are not a threat to the church, the churches will never be forced to do anything that goes against their religious beliefs and practices as long as they aren't physically harming anybody, and that would include same-sex marriages. And most of all it's not a threat to the sanctity of marriage.
Same-sex marriage has been proven to work in states like Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and the District of Columbia. It's been proven to work in countries like Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden and nothing bad has happened in those places as a result of that. It worked there, it will work in the United States of America.
Some from the audience in support of the bold statement applauded but the majority resumed booing Tori once they knew her minute was up.
The Moderator: Congressman Paul, I think you might have just been bested as the most controversial Republican Candidate on this panel.
Laughter soon followed the statement as the Moderator looked to defuse the tension made by Jacobs previous speech.
Ron Paul: I don't know about that, I mean you haven't even heard my stance on drugs and prostitution yet.
The Moderator: Governor Pawlenty.
Tim Pawlenty: As people no doubt know I was originally in favor of a GLBT protection law. If I had to do it over again, I would have changed some things. The statute is not worded the way it should be. I regretted the vote later because it included things like cross-dressing, and a variety of behaviors that weren't based on sexual orientation, just a preference for the way they dressed or behaved. So it was overly broad. If you are a 3rd-grade teacher and you are a man and you show up on Monday as Mr. Johnson and you show up on Tuesday as Mrs. Johnson, that is a little confusing to kids.
My general view on all of this is that marriage is to be defined as being a union of a man and a woman. Marriage should be elevated in our society at a special level. I don't think all domestic relationships are the equivalent of traditional marriage. Early on we decided as a country and as a state that there was value in a man and a woman being married in terms of impact on children and the like, and we want to encourage that (BUZZ!).
Rick Santorum: I am still dumbfounded by what I heard Jacobs said, I wouldn't have expected anyone on the Republican ticket to suggest such a thing regarding this particular issue, I am sorry, Mr. Moderator that is not an attack or a direct address to Jacobs I am just expressing shock and dismay which I believe is my right. When we look at this issue we have to keep in mind the moral fiber of America, we need to remember the founding principles of this country. “One nation under God” and the bible is very clear where God stands on this issue, that marriage is between a man and a woman.
I believe the issue of marriage is a federal issue, that we can't have different laws with respect to marriage. We have to have one law. Marriage is a foundational institution of our country, and we have to have a singular law with respect to that. We can't have somebody married in one state and not married in another.
Gary Johnson: I support gay unions. I think the government ought to get out of the marriage business. And then for me as governor of New Mexico, everything was a cost-benefit analysis. There weren't any sacred cows--everything was a cost-benefit analysis. What are we spending money on and what are we getting for the money that we're spending? So in that sense, the drug war is absolutely a failure.
The Moderator: I would like to thank all of you for attending this debate here tonight and following the rules, for the most part. I extend my thanks to the audience for their cooperation and participation and once again we thank Fox News, the South Carolina Republican Party and the city of Greenville. This concludes the first Republican Candidates Debate for the 2012 Election I hope the answers you got here today have been helpful and next time we hope to have Governor Romney, Speaker Gingrich and Congresswoman Bachmann here with us. Thank you and goodnight.
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